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This is my personal blog which I began in February 2001. I called it The Obvious? when I wrote anonymously and chose the name to reflect the fact I have to overcome my inhibitions about stating the obvious!

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Wednesday
May302012

Daylite 4 disappointment

I've been a long time user of Daylite, the Mac CRM and task manager from Market Circle, and had invested a lot in learning it and customising it. Over time I found the poor task management frustrating and moved to Omnifocus which I love.
 
I watched effort going into Market Circle's invoicing app Billings, which I gave up using as the integration with Daylite never worked, and their iPad apps, which I don't use, and kept waiting and waiting for the Mac app to get some attention.
 
When the new version arrived yesterday I was genuinely excited as I still want a way to integrate my GTD with contact management. But what a disappointment. It feels like they have shuffled the deckchairs rather than really improved anything. Managing contacts and lists seems if anything harder, adding todo's is a multi step process, and not to have a system wide way of adding new tasks is a deal breaker. I know their CEO AJ says it is on the way but they said that about Daylite 4 for years!!
 
Sorry to appear grumpy but I am genuinely frustrated and don't see any way I could justify the $179.95 USD price tag to "upgrade". 
 
Oh well, off to look again at Salesforce ...

Reader Comments (14)

I'm also disappointed. They could have innovated way more and changed a few paradigms. I don't really get this "rewritten from the ground up" trend. Panic just did the same with their app Coda 2. "Same same but different" seems to be the selling point.

May 30, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterOliver Nielsen

Hi Euan, finding a task/GTD system that also has a decent CRM function and is suitable for small businesses or individual professionals is a tricky one. I've played around with quite a few: Salesforce, CapsuleCRM, Batchbooks etc. Although not perfect, Insightly is not bad - it has very good task, project, opportunity and CRM functions. It is a web app but their new mobile version is not bad and is HTML5 so no need to install platform-specific apps. Two main issues: it works as a Google App so you need to use Google Apps or at least have an account for it to work. Pricing may also be an issue - the free version is better than most free accounts from similar vendors but the pricing jumps after that with the cheapest account starting at $29 a month.

If someone could come up with a well-priced, web app that has a decent mobile version and integrates CRM/Task/GTD/Project functions then it would be a winner. Nothing yet really does all those things without being too complicated to use or too expensive. If I'm wrong then perhaps another commentator could suggest something - I'll certainly try it.

May 31, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMartin De Saulles

Hard to take this post seriously when you misspell the company's name in the first sentence (and again in the next paragraph).

June 20, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJorge

I'd have thought the fact that I've been using the product since 2006 might have excused my slip with the company name but hey ...

June 20, 2012 | Registered CommenterEuan

I gave it a good attempt using Daylite 4, but I was not happy with the product and have given up. I'm a list based person. I use Daylite from a company perspective. I work with many contacts within a company and Daylite 4 quickly fell apart when trying to create an email for a contact using an email template. Unless I look up the contact, I have no way to send just one contact an email. It sends it to all them in the Company view.

I do not use any of the Projects, Sales Process or Calendar functions as we are too small to collaborate much and maintaining the process would be twice as much work.

Also, the email DMI is not any better than version 3 (still broken, no formats retained) so I guess it has something to do with Mail on the Lion 64 bit version.

I guess I will have to go search for another mac-based CRM as Daylite 3 will be going about the same direction as Goldmine.

Any suggestions?

June 20, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterBillL

Hi Bill

I actually went back after Jorge's comment and took another look. I too used the product for a very long time and was an enthusiastic promoter of it but looking again at 4 I just can't see any real improvement and having got used to Omnifocus I couldn't go back to such a basic GTD tool. I mean there doesn't even appear to be repeating tasks - something people have been asking for for years.

As to alternatives I don't know of any. That is the frustration. I really want a useful way to keep track of clients and none of the options that I have tried have been good enough.

June 20, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterEuan

"I mean there doesn't even appear to be repeating tasks"

iCal - an app developped by a multi-million (billion?) company, which has what - thousands? - of engineers on staff, also lacks repeating tasks (or 'Reminders' as they're called in iCal).

June 22, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJorge

But iCal is free and doesn't claim to be a fully featured productivity app. You clearly rate Daylite - I am glad it works for you.

June 22, 2012 | Registered CommenterEuan

So? And even if it is "free" (which it isn't - you have to buy the OS to get it), that's irrelevant. They both support appointments, they both support tasks. They both don't support repeating tasks. Whatever extra features one has that the other doesn't is irrelevant to the statement I made in the context of the specific feature (or lack thereof) being mentioned.

June 22, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJorge

The upgrade to Daylite 4 has resulted in daily tasks taking longer to accomplish in a variety of areas. I'm again looking for a CRM that integrates Apple mail with contacts. Here is a list of my gripes. Maybe some will be resolved in a future update, and it's entirely possible that some are due to my own lack of knowledge.

Missing UNDO in Notes (and probably other places as well)
There is no "undo" available when editing a note. I use Notes for my phone logs and other important client data. and years of information can be erased inadvertently with one mistake, with no possibility of recovery except to:
1. Backup database
2. Load in an earlier version of the database
3. Copy the erased phone log and save it to a text file.
4. Load the previously backed up database
5. Paste the phone log information back into the note field.

A candidate for Ripley's Believe It Or Not, this may be the first time in the history of a software release to have forgotten to code 'undo' in a text editor. Had this been the case when I was first considering Daylite 3, I would have discarded it from consideration without hesitation.

"Find" function works intermittently
The 'find' function is often missing from the Edit menu, and the keyboard shortcut of course then doesn't work either. It takes a re-launch of Daylite to get it back.

Cannot select entire name or address in Contacts
Often I need to copy the entire name & address of a contact for pasting into forms or email. With Daylite 4 the ability to select and copy a Contact's name and address all at once is gone. As a result, in order to copy the entire name and address, the contact info has to be entered twice: In the details section, then a bit at a time into each each separate field. What a bummer! I'll probably stop entering data into the address fields altogether, even though that will remove the ability to search for an address with the problematic Find feature.

No separate windows for Notes or other 'Activities.'
While on the phone, I often found it useful to be able to view both Notes and Contact information simultaneously. Now I am forced to view one window at a time, hit the 'back' button as many times as a linked window has opened. I prefer the ability to decide what could be a separate window, or else part of a fixed palette, like in Photoshop. Being forced to look at only one area at a time feels stifling.

Font keyboard shortcut is gone.
Font keyboard shortcut Command-T that is in use in virtually every other Mac program has been reassigned to create a new tab. There is no replacement keyboard shortcut to access the Font window, necessitating using a mouse to bring up the font editing window. Not a smart move.

No default text style
There used to be a pull-down menu to select text styles. I use the same font family and font size for Notes. There seems to be no way to set a default style, so every single text event requires a visit to the Font window (via the mouse ) to make the changes.

Apple Mail Integration now is 'opt-in' instead of automatic
With DMA, email is saved to a Contact only if I remember to click the button in Mail, and wait a few seconds for it to work. Now there is one more thing I have to do, as well as remember to do it. In Daylite 3 it grabbed the email automatically, which was the #1 reason I obtained Daylite in the first place. Although I like the ability to link the email to more than one Contact within Mail, I'd rather that linking mail was 'opt-out' instead of the reverse.

July 4, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMichael

Ouch! I keep hoping the Omni Group come up with a CRM because that combined with Ominfocus would be all I want.

July 4, 2012 | Registered CommenterEuan

Is anyone surprised?

July 15, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterBob

Have you looked at Project Bubble? - http://projectbubble.com/ - @projectbubble

UK/US product.

August 3, 2012 | Unregistered Commenter@IanYorston

It was more contact management than project management I was looking for - but thanks.

August 3, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterEuan

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